Q&A with Dr. Ivan Joseph, Erin Davis and Dr. Lisa Belanger

How can leaders start the conversation and help impact change from the top down?

Erin Davis explains that leaders must first show up with humility in their day to day actions, and create a culture around this.

Additionally, there needs to be a mutual understanding that it's okay to make mistakes. It's okay to potentially ‘say the wrong thing’, and know that the recipient will let them know if it lands the wrong way, and be open to talking about it. This helps avoid situations where we're fearful of asking what we're feeling openly, or fearful that saying “the wrong thing” will result in getting shamefully called out, or end in a debate as opposed to meaningful dialogue.

Erin summarizes that workplace cultures should be all about how we can show up, be courageous, and have that humility to make mistakes. There is literature that supports failure as being a good thing that leads to constant improvement, so we must endorse this in the workplace. 

Once we open the conversation around diversity and inclusion, how do we make real change?

Real change can start with policies.

Erin Davis explains that by looking at our policies and the day-to-day behaviours of leaders, calling out things that are no longer acceptable, or no longer the correct way of doing things, we are naturally shifting our workplace culture.

She says that if we can create a culture of calling people into these conversations and having the psychological safety to express curiosity and ask for clarification, then it will create a stronger foundation for building an inclusive culture.

It is known that diversity and inclusion positively affect the bottom line, so what can companies do to action this?

Whether it is because of our unconscious biases, the available talent pipeline, or some inherent choices we make, diversity seems to stall at companies.

Dr. Ivan Joseph explains that unconscious biases happen external to our awareness, so companies must train their leadership, HR staff, and employees to recognize these factors that might be unknowingly limiting our ability to attract and hire diverse talent. For example, while working as the Director of Athletics, Dr. Joseph was interested in changing the look and feel of his athletic department which was at the time quite homogeneous. He wanted to hire a racialized person to coach their basketball team. The application required three to five years of assistant coach or head coach university experience, and when looking across the Canadian landscape, people in those positions were all very similar.

He was challenged to diversify the basketball coach, because of this limiting prerequisite for employment. Dr. Joseph had to approach HR and university leadership to ask for clarification, and propose alternatives. The result was a change in the required qualification, and a diversified pool of applicants for the job.

Initially, the policies were limiting his ability to hire diverse talent, but ultimately the Sikh Canadian coach that was hired went on to win their first national championship medal, and is now coaching in the NBA. 

How can the hiring process be modified to promote diversity in the workplace?

We know that women and people of colour are less likely to apply unless they are 100% or very close qualified for the job. Dr. Ivan Joseph explains that we must avoid passive recruitment, and actively look to fill our positions.

He shares a statistic that is you can get two women into the final pool of candidates, they are 194 times more likely to get hired into the final job. We have to intentionally seek out these people, because it won’t happen by accident. He further explains that this doesn’t mean you’re promising people a job, or that you’re attracting under qualified people. It is simply adding interionality. 

Dr. Joseph addresses unconscious biases, claiming that we are susceptible to either liking people because they look like us, or disliking people because they said something that was different, or didn't act the way we thought they would. These are all stances to consider when trying to foster diversity in a corporate candidate.

It doesn’t stop there. What are things you can do after the hiring process?

Dr. Joseph emphasizes that persistence and retention of our underrepresented folks is really key. It is important that they can identify support systems around them. He warns that you can't bring diverse hires in by themselves without putting them to a mentor, and states that they're 13%-27% more likely to persist if they are paired with one.

A mentor doesn't have to be the same gender, age or ethnicity. It just needs to be somebody who knows the politics of the company, can navigate the principles, and can provide a safe space for conversation. 

Another mistake that Dr. Joseph points out is being close minded to treating everybody equally,  and failing to recognize the things that make us different. This has the opposite effect for retaining underrepresented and diverse talent. He explains that it makes  people feel less valued, where instead you should be celebrating the differences. 

What can larger companies with resources do to implement practices that support diversity and inclusion?

Dr. Ivan Joseph emphasizes the importance of training, but explains that when made mandatory, it has the opposite effect. He says it turns people into silent resistors, since people dislike being told what to do.

It’s important to make training gentle, allowing people to participate comfortably. Training can include bias training, inclusive training, diversity training, or anything that will help shift corporate culture.

He notes that it’s important to recognize that diversity training is not just about systems and policies, but also about attitudes and beliefs, which can stem from leadership buy-in. Do they walk the talk? Do they say what they mean? 

What can small organizations do to really move the mark on diversity and inclusion?

Let's say you're a small corporation, and you know you can't bring in the $10,000 speaker, or the $30,000 workshop. Could you start a book club that features educational books that will initiate conversation? What vendors, could you decide to do your business with? If you’re sensing a lack of diverse talent, what university could you partner with to create internships, scholarships and other opportunities that will funnel in new talent.

These are all things that aren't tied to the big value dollar. In the virtual world we’ve entered, can you leverage more affordable online training?

What can you do as an individual in the workplace to support diversity and inclusion? 

It's every individual's responsibility to go learn. There is no shortage of stories, books, documentaries, data and other resources available to us. Dr. Joseph reiterates that everybody wants to feel like they matter and belong. What can you as an individual do to create a place where people feel like there's a home for them? You can engage. Make it a priority. 

If you’re interested in hearing this conversation in detail and learning more from the experts, take a listen to Episode 11 of The Science of Work Podcast.